"All love stories end in tragedy": "The Notebook" author Nicholas Sparks defines his genre

Nicholas Sparks has a talent for making you weepy. His 24th novel, "Counting Miracles," which leapt to the top of the New York Times bestseller list in its first week and is already slated for a film adaptation, is no exception. The story of an Army Ranger's search for the father he never knew — and of the woman who steals his heart along the way — is replete with the classic Sparks themes of heartbreak, tragedy, loneliness, second chances, plenty of emotional plot twists and of course, romance. Taking inspiration from the Book of Job, Sparks explained during a recent Salon Talks conversation that the novel "explores the question of why bad things happen to people. I certainly think that that is an experience that most people can relate to." Sparks's fans agree — a recent Goodreads review enthuses that "The snot bubbles were bubbling the entire time I was reading this book."

This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.

Your latest book, “Counting Miracles," will be your 24th novel. You have said that you always want to challenge yourself and you never want to repeat yourself. What's different about this one?

This one differs from something like, “The Notebook,” or “Message in a Bottle,” or “Dear John,” in that there's actually two stories going on. There's an “A” story and a “B” story, and of course, I've tried to make the characters very different from characters that I've created in the past. There's a fairly strong Biblical allusion in this novel, which I had never done before.

Faith is really very much front and center. There are Bible verses in it, there's clearly allegories and parallels between the struggles of these characters and Biblical stories. Tell me about how you wove that together and what that means for this story.

Yeah, it's interesting. I wouldn't necessarily characterize this as a Christian book or a Jewish book. There's a character whose life largely follows the pattern established in Job, and it explores the question [of] why bad things happen to people. 

I certainly think that that is an experience that most people can relate to, whether or not they believe, they look up and say, "This, too? I think I'm a little overwhelmed at the present time, but now my car got stolen, or now my best friend just got hit by a car. How can all this be happening at once?" I think that's a very universal feeling, and I wanted to capture that universality of, into every life, a little rain must pour. 

To do that, I said, "Okay, the most well-known story about that is really the Book of Job," so that's where the title came from. There's a line in the Book of Job about how your life is filled with uncounted miracles, so this one I entitled “Counting Miracles.”  

What does faith mean to you and what does it mean to be a Christian right now?

I'm coming up on 60 years old here, not quite there yet, but I'm coming up. About six years ago, I said, "You know, I want to feel more inner peace." And I said, "Okay, how do you do that?" 

I spent a few years trying all sorts of things like mindfulness work, meditation, reading Zen Buddhism stuff, did some yoga, listening to tapes or things like that. What really resonated with me more than any of those was prayer, and it was a specific kind of prayer. I'm Christian, I was raised Catholic so I do my traditional Catholic prayers, but it was prayers of gratitude for all of those people in my life who have helped shape me into the person I am today. Maybe they helped me, maybe they said something to me that changed my life.

I remember once, for instance, I had a manager. I was working as a waiter, I had two job offers. "Do I take this one or this one?" One would've had me out of town for six months out of the year, and I had a young child at the time. He said, "Well, there's no question, you take this one." This led to pharmaceuticals, which led me to North Carolina, which then led me to this back porch, where I began to imagine the story of “The Notebook.” Just this little comment changed the course of my life, and I'm very grateful to that, because I like my life. Or the coach who gave me a scholarship, or the runner who said, "If you work at this, you can be good." 

I find myself feeling very grateful for all of these people. And that leads to a gratitude with God and the life that I've led, and I feel very much at peace. That's what it's done for me. I can't say that prayer is going to work for everyone. I tried mindfulness, I tried meditation, this was what worked for me. I think the research by psychologists and sociologists [says], if you really try to build a feeling of gratitude in your life, you're a happier person generally. Life is a little easier to bear, even in the down times, when you're feeling gratitude. So it's a good thing. I'm a Christian. I certainly find beauty in any number of other religions as well. And if you're a Christian or if you're not, okay, great. Do what works for you.

“The Notebook” set you on a particular path. You talk about what it meant for you personally, but what has it meant for you as a writer? It did seem to create a certain kind of Nicholas Sparks genre.

It's funny, I had a book signing yesterday, and I asked, "What's your favorite book?" And so many people still say "The Notebook." And I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, that means I've been going downhill for the last 25 years." [Laughter.] I try not to think of it that way, but sure, it was a novel that spent a long time on the bestseller list, in both hardcover and paperback, and then eventually became this iconic film, and now it's a musical. It's certainly altered the path of my life and established me in this very specific kind of genre that nobody else really writes. 

They're novels with romantic elements in them. You never quite know the ending, whether it's going to be happy, or sad, or bittersweet. It's set in North Carolina. After that, part of the genre is also a surprise. You want a different story, and you want a different structure and different pacing, different voice, different perspective. The novels have all varied dramatically.

Your origin story with “The Notebook” is really interesting. It was rescued from the slush pile. It was inspired by a story from your own family. Do you think a novel like that could have that kind of rescue story now, given how different the industry is?

Sure. I'm really glad I am where I am right now, because I think part of what's making books break out, whether we're talking Colleen Hoover or Kristin Hannah, [is] a lot of online social media buzz. Either catch a wave by luck, or you create your own wave. 

When I first started, it was difficult too. Agents were rejecting 99% of new clients. Then, even when you got an agent, there was no guarantee you'd get a publisher. And then, let's say you did both, there was no guarantee that the novel would sell out of the store. So I think it's difficult, no matter what era you're in, to start, and certainly different now than it was. I caught a few breaks early on, and here I am today.

If I said, "Word association, Nicholas Sparks," what do you think people would say?

Quality.

I like that. I would also say crying. You make people cry, Nicholas, and they love it. How does that make you feel?

I think it's great. “Romeo and Juliet,” that's probably Shakespeare's most well-known play. More people can recite the plot of “Romeo and Juliet” than they can, let's say, “The Merchant of Venice.” When you look back at Hemingway, you make a case that “A Farewell to Arms” is his most well-known book. What's a great movie from, let's say the '40s and '50s? “Casablanca” is going to pop up on that list, and it's the same type of thing. It's a story with a romantic element, a couple of characters in there that you can very much relate to, and the ending is in doubt. There's always this curiosity as to whether the characters will get together, and there's no guarantee that they will.

Why do you think that is, that we seek that? We want to feel that sadness, we want to cry. Why?

There's a couple of reasons for that, so let's start with one. All great love stories, all of them must, by definition, end in tragedy. In real life, whether it's a pet, your child, a spouse, a sister, parents, the greater the love, the more tragic the loss, because no one lives forever. Every great love story comes to an end. You might say, "Ah, but what about in ‘The Notebook’ movie where they died at the same time?" Well, they left behind children, and those children weren't happy. They were broken-hearted, they were sad when Noah and Allie were gone." Love and tragedy go hand in hand, so that's part of it. If you're going to write about great love and make it real, you can't have one without the other. That's part one.

Part two is just probably a personal preference of mine, and it kind of goes to the genre in which I work. What you're trying to do is to evoke genuine emotion, and what is the purpose of my genre? It's to make you feel as if you've led a mini-life between the pages. That's different [from] a horror novel, where your purpose is to scare the reader, or a thriller novel, where you're supposed to thrill, or an adventure novel, you get lost in the adventure, or a mystery.

The purpose of my novels is to move you through all of the emotions of life so that you feel like you've led a mini-life between the pages. If you ignore one of the major emotions of life, i.e. sadness, [it] doesn't feel real. It feels like a fantasy. There's room for fantastic or fantasy-based literature. Cinderella, for example. There is room for that, and they can be memorable stories, but I prefer novels that move you through a variety of emotions and make you feel. They just tend to be more memorable to me.

How does that guide you in your own personal life when you're out there dating, when you're talking to your kids about their relationships? If I said to my daughters, "All love ends in tragedy," I don't know how they'd feel about that.

Well, number one, they should know, because it's true. But number two, to me, what that means is to enjoy the moments that you have, to make the most of them, to find reasons to be grateful, to find reasons to enjoy the company. 

I have children, and they're growing older. Fortunately, none of them have passed away. They're beginning to lead their own lives, they're having their own children, they're not here in the house, they're there. Visits are more sporadic. That is the ending of a specific kind of relationship. I can choose to be sad about that, that I don't see them as much, or I can find ways to be grateful for the time that I do spend with them or for the pride that I feel. And I just kind of wire my life that way. I think most people do, because if we get caught up in catastrophizing, that leads to a very miserable life. Nonetheless, no one lives forever. All love stories end in tragedy.

You've had 11 of your novels turned into movies. Now that you are established as also a cinematic brand, what does that do for you as you're thinking of your novel?

It's interesting. Most of that, the work of thinking about film or the possibility of film, takes place before I start a novel. Many stories, or story ideas, or story elements are rejected because they don't feel original enough to me. A real easy way to understand that is I would never write a love story based on the Titanic. You're like, "Why? There's not been a book." Yeah, but there's a pretty big movie about that, so it wouldn't be original. 

You're going through an idea and you're like, "Well, what if this, or what if that?" And you're like, "Okay, I don't really remember a book like that, but oh gosh, that was just a series on Apple," or, "Oh my gosh, there was a movie about that," or, "Oh my gosh, there was this other thing, a long-running series." It doesn't pass the originality test.

I filter things through originality for novels, and films, and television. You come up with the idea. Okay, now I'm ready to start writing. At that point, I do not think about the film at all. I just try to write the best novel I can. Now, I've finished with the novel. Okay, now, it might be being turned into a film. I only think about the film. I say, "These things worked in the book, but they won't work in the film, so let's remove those, and let's change some things up." And I'm perfectly willing to do that. So that's how I do it, it's all upfront.

You are, by any stretch, a successful person. With that level of success, what do you consider your disappointments? 

Growing up, I loved track and field. I had a dream of going to the Olympics and winning an Olympic medal. It's probably the biggest dream I ever had. I never made it. I had a pretty successful track career, and it's how I got through college, and had a successful college career, but it could have been more successful. There's a dream that I just didn't do. Every time I watch the Olympics, I'm like, "Man, I could have been somebody if the genetic cards, for instance, would've fallen more in my favor." 

I think every life is filled with disappointment. You raise kids and you look back and say, "Hey, what would've happened if I'd done this? What would've happened if I'd done that?" There's a disappointment, right? I was raised Catholic. I'm divorced now, and there's some feeling of regret or disappointment that that marriage didn't work out. I think disappointment and regret are just part of everyone's life. I tell my kids that challenge is part of everyone's life. 

I went on safari once, and I wanted to see the lions of the Sabi Sands. People can go on YouTube and see this, but [there] was this pack of six lions, and they ended up taking over this massive territory, and they killed everything. Eventually, there was just one lion left, because all of his brothers finally had been killed off. So he's the leader, he's the most powerful lion in Africa, you could say. I took a photograph from the distance of his face, and then of course, I zoomed [in]. It is just covered in scars, hoofs that hit him, or fights in the past, or this and that. I've actually given my kids that photograph and I say, "Look, this is the Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk of the lion world. He is the king of all the lions. This guy makes Simba and Mufasa look like nobodies. And look how hard life is for him.” Life is tough, whether you're successful or not successful, and navigating the challenges, the disappointments of life is pretty much what it means to live.

You are a busy guy, you're setting challenges for yourself all the time. What's your next big challenge?

Coming up on next year, I have to do a couple of stories, including one I can't really talk about it. That's going to be a challenge, because it's not something I usually do, and it's a different writing than, let's say, the novels that I'm known for. So I have to do that, plus I'm working on a novel that's particularly difficult for other reasons, and then I have to do this third thing.

I think that's what motivates me, is to say, "Hey, can I not only keep going, because keeping going, that's easy, but can I surprise myself? Can I write a novel that I think is better than anything I've done before?" Before I'm starting or conceiving a novel, I say, "My goal is to write the one. This is the one. I've done it,” and every reader says, 'This is it'." I'm still searching for that one, and the attempt to try and do that is what motivates me, because it's a high challenge, and I might never ever get there. But if you're not chasing a dream, why are we doing it?