Kiernan Shipka doesn’t like the phrase “just friends.” To the actress, who recently held roles in films like “Twisters,” “Longlegs” and “Red One,” it’s a trite reduction and frequent label applied to those relationships we can’t seem to define — the kinds that sit in the nebulous realm between friends and something more. The kinds that could almost certainly come to romantic fruition, if only someone could find the right words.
“I always catch myself because it’s the way we say it, but I don’t like ‘just friends.’ I think you’re friends,” Shipka explained in a recent Salon Talks sit down. “It takes away from the fact that it’s really valuable.”
It’s a tension that sits at the heart of Shipka’s latest film, “Sweethearts,” a romantic comedy from HBO about Jamie (Shipka) and Ben (Nico Hiraga), two seemingly codependent best friends who make a pact to end each of their respective long-distance relationships from high school during the fall break of their freshman year at college. Aside from being drawn to the film’s comedic plotline and script, Shipka shared how she identified closely with the “will they won’t they” energy of Jamie and Ben’s friendship. “I definitely have a lot of ‘platonic friendships’ that have a tiny little dangling, ‘Is this just this or is this something more?’ It wasn’t something that I’d ever played before,” she added. “So that was another part of it that I thought, ‘Oh, that’ll be cool because I can really relate to that.”
Shipka also knows a thing or two about the nature of a long-lasting friendship like the ones seen in “Sweethearts.” One of her most well-known and longstanding friendships is with former “Mad Men” co-star January Jones, who played Shipka’s character’s mother, Betty Draper. “If you told little six-year-old me that, one day, we’d be getting drinks together and talking life, I think it would blow my mind,” Shipka says.
That’s the crux of where “Sweethearts” finds its true resonance with Shipka’s career. "I love that I get to be a part of things where I then make friends and they stay my friends.”
The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Can you introduce us to the story? What about “Sweethearts” really drew you to it?
“Sweethearts” is about a turkey dump [when a college student returns home for Thanksgiving and breaks up with their high school partner], which I did not know was a thing. It really revolves around this friendship between our main characters, Ben and Jamie, and they've been friends forever. They're sort of joined at the hip. They decided to go to college together, have never been romantic, and have their long-distance relationships that they decided to keep when they embarked on their college journeys.
Slowly but surely, they start to realize that maybe these relationships are ruining their lives or at least their college experience. When they go home for Thanksgiving, they make a pact that they're both going to dump their significant others, and chaos ensues because it's a movie. [Laughter.]
Was there anything in particular that made you really want to join this project?
There's so many things. First, I love comedy and I don't do it as often as I would like. That's always an immediate draw, but the script was so funny, it made me laugh. I just saw it with an audience for the first time, and everyone was laughing and it was so exciting. It's genuinely very funny, so that was one thing.
"I feel like in my 20s, every single month I'm a new person."
Everyone involved was so great. That didn't change, from first impression to [now], we're all still friends and hanging out.
As far as the story itself, I definitely have a lot of "platonic friendships" that have a tiny little dangling "is this just this or is it something more?" It wasn't something I'd ever played before, so that was another part of it that I thought, "Oh, that'll be cool because I can really relate to that."
Do you think that long distance relationships can work?
I think they can work, but I think it's hard when you're so young. Going to college, you're 18, 19, finding yourself. I think that's a hard time to have a long distance relationship. If it works for someone, that's amazing, but I totally understand where it's probably always hard. I feel like in my 20s, every single month I'm a new person and I am changing. If the person that I'm in a partnership with is far away, that's really tricky.
Sometimes embarking on adulthood or going away from home for the first time, that sense of, "Oh, there's something from my past that's still with me," I see where that could be limiting for some people.
At one point in the movie, your character Jamie says she really only texts her boyfriend Simon when she's uncomfortable or looking for a distraction. How do you feel about the idea that people can get mired in this sense of familiarity, even if they aren’t in the best relationship?
I feel like that can be applied to people. It can also be applied to things or the way that one lives their life. I think we all know what a comfort zone feels like and it's so understandable, but there's also so much on the other side of being comfortable. It's definitely a theme in the film that I could relate to, not so much so in a romantic relationship that I have or even really relationships with most of my friends, but just with things too.
According to Ben, Jamie can be mean and has this desperate sense of wanting to be accepted. What do you think about her?
She has her trauma. She has a childhood experience with a group of girlfriends where she gets turned on and she doesn't really trust her female friendship, so she has none. Playing her, I viewed her as a wounded little girl in a lot of ways, and I think that externally came off as her being controlling.
She's so guarded. She is wall on wall on wall. There are some lines that didn't make it in the movie that were even more playing on that. For me, it's about kind of psychoanalyzing and getting into why exactly she's the way she is. She comes off one way, but inside, I think she's a ball of mush somewhere – you have to peel back the layers and the layers and the layers.
Palmer (Caleb Hearon), Jamie's other close high school friend, has a subplot that was one of my favorite parts of the movie. He's clearly disenchanted by Cranford High and the drawbacks of being queer in the small town suburbs, but then he finds this unlikely camaraderie and comfort. Why is his character’s finding acceptance in unexpected places so important to the film?
"When I was six or seven, January Jones was the coolest living or dead human"
It's so beautiful. It's really an amazing part of the movie, and it was really awesome to watch with an audience for the first time because I could tell that it really moved people. It moved me. I think it's great because a lot of kids are going to be watching this, a lot of kids who don't feel seen or like they can step into themselves fully without moving to New York, or moving to LA, or doing something drastic. You just see someone coming into their own as they are where they are. There's something really, really touching and special about that, and Caleb does such an amazing job.
It's also fun too. It's nice to have stuff that feels meaningful in a movie that's also really fun and silly. It's really lovely. It warmed my heart and it made me really proud to be a part of it.
How much would you say this movie is about individual exploration vs. being anti-relationship?
I really do feel like it falls more on the individual exploration front and really, it’s about friendship too. At the end of the day, these relationships are driving the plot, but really what it's about is the fact that it's OK to change and grow. It's not some major threat if your friendship changes, it doesn't mean that it's over. That's what Jamie, in particular, but Ben and Jamie are learning through this movie.
The movie is certainly a lot about long-lasting friendships, and one of your most well-known friendships is with January Jones from your days on “Mad Men.” What does that friendship mean to you and how much of an influence does your time on Mad Men still have on your life?
So much. I still think this, but when I was six or seven, January Jones was the coolest living or dead human. Everything that she did, I then wanted to do. She would drink iced green tea, I wanted iced green tea. She wore UGGs like it was nobody's business, and I wanted UGGs. Truly, everything that she did, I was just bowing down. If you told little six-year-old me that, one day, we'd be getting drinks together and talking about life, I think it would blow my mind. I love her. I mean, she's still a great friend. It's been really cool to have once been a kid working with these people and now be an adult and have some cast members still in my life as friends. It's really nice, it's kind of “pinch me." There's something about it that doesn't quite feel real but [still is] very nice.
“Sweethearts” is about moving on to the next stage of life. For someone who's been acting professionally for such a long time, does the film resonate with you moving on to the next chapter of your career or life?
"It's the way we say it, but I don't like 'just friends.' I think you're friends."
Yeah, it completely does. On the front of just making the movie, I love that I get to be a part of things where I then make friends and they stay my friends. I actually cannot believe that this movie is coming out because we all just hang out all the time. I'm just talking about my friends right now and this experience that I had, I cannot believe that other people are going to see it. There's this nice thing as I get older where I'm like, "Oh my God, I can make friends on the movies that I do?" Because “Mad Men” was a different thing. I mean, everyone was so much older than me, and the kid who played my brother changed seven times, so that was hard to hold onto. Being a part of things that not only are really fun to work on because of the content, but also because of the people, is something that's become more of a priority as I've gotten older.
It's really a fun one, and I think making these moments feel like a big deal is great too. You can watch it and go, "Oh, you're just going home and you're just breaking up with these people. It's just a flash in the pan of your life," but it's a big moment. I think it's a moment that changes both of them and will significantly for the rest of their lives. It's cool to zoom in on very particular moments in life. That's what I love about films in general.
I also liked how much the film values friendship.
I do too. [Some people are] just friends. Actually, I always catch myself because it's the way we say it, but I don't like “just friends.” I think you're friends. I always bump on that, and it's something my mom used to tell me a lot too when I was like, "Oh, no. We're just friends." She goes, "No, you're friends. That's enough. You're not just friends." I like that, but I catch myself all the time because obviously it's the way that it's said. It takes away from the fact that it's really valuable.
A clip from “When Harry Met Sally” plays in the film. We hear Billy Crystal as Harry say that no man can be friends with a woman he finds attractive. Was “Sweethearts” grappling with that question something that interested you?
Yeah, I thought it was a really interesting thing to talk about in a movie. I certainly have tons of platonic friendships that I don't think are going anywhere, and they're great. I really did want to touch on that, because obviously, that's such a notion and it's such an iconic monologue. How can it not get in your head? I mean, it's profound in its way, and he's rooted in that belief. If you think that, you can totally move about the world that way, but I think there's another way and this movie has that message. I loved that, because it was relatable to me and I think a ton of people.
"Sweethearts" premieres Nov. 28 on Max.
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