INTERVIEW

"The entertainment of MAGA infighting" is a trap

How not to get buried by Trump's avalanche of distractions while staying informed

By Chauncey DeVega

Senior Writer

Published January 8, 2025 5:45AM (EST)

Former U.S. President and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump greets U.S. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene at the Georgia Republican Party's state convention on Saturday, June 10, 2023 in Columbus, GA. (Cheney Orr for The Washington Post via Getty Images)
Former U.S. President and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump greets U.S. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene at the Georgia Republican Party's state convention on Saturday, June 10, 2023 in Columbus, GA. (Cheney Orr for The Washington Post via Getty Images)

On Monday, Donald Trump was officially certified by Congress as the winner of the 2024 Electoral College vote. Vice President Kamala Harris, who Trump defeated in the election, fulfilled her responsibilities by overseeing the vote count and ceremony. Trump will take power on January 20. His inauguration coincides with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Remembrance Day. Trump is America’s first White president. Dr. King is one of America’s great freedom warriors for multiracial democracy and human rights. He was martyred for his struggle to force America to live up to its professed ideals and unrealized potential. The coincidence of these two events is one more example of how this version of reality feels fundamentally broken.

Trump’s official victory as the 47th president of the United States also took place on the fourth “anniversary” of his attempt to remain in office despite being defeated in the 2020 election. On Jan. 6, four years ago, in one of the most infamous moments in American history, many thousands of Donald Trump’s MAGA followers, at his encouragement, participated in a violent assault on the Capitol. They came dangerously close to succeeding. Then-Vice President Mike Pence (and other high-ranking government officials including Nancy Pelosi) were minutes if not seconds away from being tracked down by the MAGA mob. The quick thinking by an African American Capitol Police officer named Eugene Goodman likely saved Pence’s life — and American democracy.

  "I think of what filmmaker Ernst Lubitsch said when he left Berlin for the U.S. in the run-up to fascism in Germany: 'Nothing good is going to happen here for a long time.'"

Trump has repeatedly said that he will pardon many members of the Jan. 6 MAGA attack force because they are "victims," "political prisoners," and "patriots" if not civic saints and heroes. Trump has described the Jan. 6 attack by his MAGA followers on the Capitol as "a day of love."

The centrists, institutionalists and other such mainstream voices who continue to naively believe in a version of an eternally democratic and decent America that does not exist and where autocrats and demagogues are anathema to the country’s political traditions and culture were (self- and incorrectly) convinced that the events of Jan. 6, 2020, would be the end of Donald Trump’s political power and the MAGA movement. Instead, Donald Trump and the MAGA movement would endure and grow in power and influence. There is a deep appetite for authoritarianism in America (and other parts of the world).

In all, Trump’s victory in the 2024 election, the certification of the Electoral College votes on Monday, and the events of Jan. 6, 2021, have caused a type of cognitive dissonance and frustration among pro-democracy Americans and other members of the “reality-based community” that none of this should be happening but all of it has and continues to. On this, Heather Cox Richardson writes in her newsletter Letters from an American how, “Democracy stood in the sense that its norms were honored today as they were not four years ago, which is no small thing. But it is a blow indeed that the man who shattered those norms by trying to overturn the will of the American voters and seize the government will soon be leading it again.”

The emotional core of this dissonance and disbelief at Trump and MAGA return to power is a profound state of mourning for the nation and its future.

In an attempt to make better sense of our collective emotions (and tumult and upset) in these weeks before Trump’s return to power, reflect on the previous year and the election, and what may come next, I recently spoke to a range of experts.

Steven Beschloss is a journalist and author of several books, including "The Gunman and His Mother." His website is America, America.

The failure of American voters, including many Democrats, to embrace Kamala Harris is a tragedy that the country will only begin to comprehend in the months ahead. Whether she was rejected because of her gender or race, her ideas or the price of eggs, the failure of a strong majority of Americans to grasp or care about the danger of electing a vengeful convicted felon who despises the Constitution, the rule of law and the will of the people has ensured that the coming years will be calamitous. This tragic reality is not simply about the choice between two candidates, but a sign of how broken our political system and information ecosystem are. The lack of an informed citizenry is a perfect predicate for the rise of oligarchic, kleptocratic and authoritarian rule—and the further decline or demise of democratic self-governance. So is demagogic leadership that fuels grievance, anger and scapegoating instead of offering real answers to complex problems.

I expected the recklessness would not be on full display until closer to the inauguration. We have seen the incompetent, corrupt, criminal and sycophantic nominees for Donald Trump’s “leadership” team quickly chosen without proper vetting. Tulsi Gabbard? Pete Hegseth? Kash Patel? Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.? Not only do many of his choices seek to normalize immoral or criminal behavior, but they also make clear — for anyone who wasn’t paying attention — that Trump’s primary interests are retribution, dismantling our government, serving Vladimir Putin by aggressively undermining national security and further enriching himself and his super-rich cronies. The planned installation of nearly two dozen billionaires in leading positions makes it obvious that he never intended to prioritize the needs of the working classes. The Trump-supporter ascendancy of Elon Musk, the world’s richest man, who is bent on stripping away funding of popular and necessary social programs to finance his interests, mocks our democracy and makes clear that America is now at the mercy of its self-serving oligarchs.

With the inauguration still days away, we can hope that the MAGA infighting and the incompetence of Trump’s choices will undermine their cruel and reckless agenda. So, too, I am encouraged by the many dedicated people at every level who will oppose this dangerous regime, not just in broad terms but the daily assaults on our institutions and vulnerable populations. This is a reason to hope that we can survive and ultimately overcome the onslaught ahead.

Lastly, the passing of former President Jimmy Carter is a reminder of the value of compassionate, empathic, humanistic, and service-minded leaders who provide a model for the public. It will take all my effort to manage my anger that so many Americans chose four years of Trump’s selfish depravity, cruelty, and idiocy. But I’ll take strength from every voice I hear and action taken to oppose Trump and his hateful enablers.

Dr. Gary Slutkin is a distinguished epidemiologist, formerly with the World Health Organization (WHO), where he founded the Intervention Unit, which designed innovations in epidemic control and is the founder of Cure Violence Global, rated as the #1 NGO for reducing violence. 

I am an infectious disease physician and epidemiologist formerly with the World Health Organization. I led efforts to reverse epidemics overseas and have lived and worked in several dictatorships. Violence is an infectious disease — and is a common feature of dictatorships. This is relevant to all Americans — no matter who you voted for and must be avoided.

2024 is in the past. The election suspended our experience of time. What is to come is planned chaos — and threatens a relapse of historical-level disorder. This is seemingly considered desirable by distressed personalities. However, we can chart a better course if we stop to understand what is happening better: Tolerate the chaos — but not violence — not to immigrants nor to our own population.

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Fortunately, over the last few decades, we have come to understand how violence and authoritarianism work better than we ever did. Chaos distracts and tricks us. Threats and violence, however, are infectious and lethal, destroying our mental health and our whole society — friends and families, home and work, all of life, and all of us. Nobody is spared. Threats and violence affect all of us everywhere. It is to be avoided everywhere.

We now need to focus amid the chaos on two critical issues: First, stopping cruelty, raids, violence and deportation camps, and finding humane and better ways to change our immigration issues. Secondly, we must not allow the U.S. military to be used domestically for this or any purpose — against citizens or non-citizens. Staying within the bounds of acceptable modern society requires our understanding of the difference between loyalty and obedience. This is especially true for our elected officials now. They must be leaders, not followers now. Loyal if needed, but obedience is different, treacherous and disloyal. Obedience is the problem that will destroy us, personally and as a country.

Obedience is not loyalty.

Loyalty is how we relate to our family, friends and those we play and work with. Obedience is giving up your sense of self. Obedience is giving up your personal identity, your own agency and your conscience. Obedience is what we commonly expect from our dogs. Obedience is different. Obedience is part of a brain disease that violence uses.

No authoritarian leader does the violence himself. They use and abuse other people to allow it or to do it. They use other people to sign legislation that allows cruelty and violence. They threaten and use people as empty vessels to do violence in a “non-thinking” mode. With excuses they give themselves that are not worth it. 

For all of us — from our elected officials who are supposed to be leaders — not followers — to our media owners and reporters, to everyday citizens of any political party, violence is not loyalty. The difference between loyalty and obedience needs to be cleared up quickly.

We are now awaiting storms and must focus. The two biggest immediate dangers: inhumane, cruel and brutal raids and deportation camps; and the use of our military within our borders are where obedience must stop — at every level.

Historians of the 20th century, including Timothy Snyder and Ruth Ben-Ghiat and the preeminent scholar Hannah Arendt, all revealed that there are several layers of people (preciously “normal” people) who allow “obedience” to take over their brains. This includes people who hand themselves over to become cronies and people in government not clearly seeing that they can become so-called desk killers. There are the otherwise previously normal working people who are made to think violence is good or needed. These thoughts are wrong. This is where good and bad get confused, where we all need to slow down and call for help with our thinking, talk to trusted friends and colleagues, stop these personal errors and stop the country from going over the cliff. There are alternative personal choices. If not, generations of shame follow later among children and grandchildren. 

Let’s avoid the distractions of Canada and Greenland, the entertainment of MAGA infighting and the sci-fi delusions of living on Mars where there is no livable oxygen or temperatures and focus on stopping the cruelty and abuse of good people, most of whom need help like our own ancestors did. Raids of homes, schools and workplaces, and concentration camps in the desert are not ok. Military actions against free speech or assembly in the country are not ok.

Neuroscience and other disciplines have both suggested and shown that many people in power are different from the rest of us and have morally disengaged, are without normal brain empathy connections and do not even see some of the rest of us as people or humans in the usual sense. These are not the people to follow or obey.

More than one member of Congress has said some version or another of “Whatever Trump wants I will do.” This is the mark of compromised or damaged people. Acting for the cruelty and violence of deportation is not acceptable or normal. Military actions that impair free speech or assembly within the country are not acceptable or normal. Acting with your own moral being and own self-respect is needed.

Obedience that goes against moral principles is not only not ok, but the end of personhood. We, which includes our legislators, can stick together against blind obedience and violence.

I am personally sad this sickness has emerged here. But it is more relevant for us to understand this serious variant of a violence disorder and help those who have been infected not cause further damage to themselves and all of us. Otherwise, our society and our morality will devolve to something nobody, but a handful wanted. We have a choice still.

Investigative reporter Heidi Siegmund Cuda writes about US politics and culture for Byline Times and Byline Supplement. Her Substack site is Bette Dangerous.

My podcast partners and I spent three years warning that Democratic leaders were ignoring information warfare at our country’s peril and we urged them to address the war in a speech we were asked to write for Joe Biden, which later became an open letter. The speech was never read and from what we understand there was no interest in publicly acknowledging the degree that Russia was blanketing America with digital poison. I spent the last two weeks proving that America is just one of two dozen countries Russia is attacking and that we are not alone or unique.

Russia doesn’t invent our problems, but as Dr. Michael MacKay explained it pours gasoline on our fires. So, in the end, a convicted felon and someone who appears to be heavily influenced by Russia was elected over the competent Black prosecutor and vice president, a woman, who believes in democracy.

If Americans would take a moment from their navel-gazing, they would see other countries protecting democracy in ways we can now only dream of – like Romania, which rejected the results of its first-round presidential elections due to Russian interference. We don’t even do recounts where sources that appeared to be in Russia targeted swing states with bomb threats. These are terrorist attacks on our own soil.

I have been thinking about what Dr. Marci Shore taught me — history doesn’t tell us what is going to happen, it merely offers suggestions. I think of what filmmaker Ernst Lubitsch said when he left Berlin for the U.S. in the run-up to fascism in Germany: "Nothing good is going to happen here for a long time.”


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I only cried once since the election. When my friend sent me information about obtaining a German passport my mind flashed to my father at 21, on a train, with his arm extended out the window, saying goodbye to his buddies playing the accordion on the platform. He was smiling big because he was on his way to the New World, leaving his war-ravaged country of Germany behind him.

Most days I attempt to balance the comfort of the activist communities we’ve built with the fact that there are forces who are trying to destroy America and those who voted for this destruction have no idea how their decisions will hurt them to.

How am I preparing for Inauguration Day? I am largely detached from social media. It is a toxic space. The right-wing is doing it political performance art of course.

I also see a potential future where Trump’s regime collapses under the weight of its own corruption. It is my hope that the Democrats are preparing to step in with a shared vision of the future that will entice MAGA to wake up from its dark fairytales and rejoin the ranks of the pro-democracy, disenchanted with their fascist flirtation when polio ravages the country and granny loses her Medicare.

I am reading history books and writing. History just offers suggestions but here are a few: within weeks of Putin coming to power, the Kremlin began to erode basic individual freedoms guaranteed under the 1993 Russian Constitution – closing the public space, denying the rights of free speech and press – all planned from the outset. Within six months of President Duterte coming to power in the Philippines, journalist Maria Ressa told Guardian reporter Carole Cadwalldr: “It took six months after he took office for our institutions to crumble.” Within three months of Hitler becoming the German Chancellor, his enemies were imprisoned. In Viktor Orbán’s Hungary, free speech has been replaced with propaganda and lies. 

I am preparing myself with knowledge, and not the distractions designed to stoke fear and paralysis.

On the night of the election, I was with a veteran activist who told me a story about Dalton Trumbo, the blacklisted writer. When asked about his time during the Red Scare, Trumbo recounted that regardless of what we endure, we still have to have a happy life. I have held that close.

In addition, my friend told me that in 1930s Germany, there was a saying that the pessimists went to New York and London, and the optimists went to Auschwitz. I have also held that close. Those who oppose the regime and have the means to get out will not be faulted for doing so. There are many fronts of this war. Others who are in public opposition to the regime are being encouraged to go underground. I’m not sure that is feasible in a post-privacy world.

Nothing good is going to happen here in the United States for a very long time unless, of course, the people wake up and challenge the regime. As Yale intellectual historian Dr. Marci Shore explained to me, everything can change in an “augenblick” — a blink of an eye. After 25 brutal years, the Romanian dictatorship of Nicolae Ceausescu came to a swift end on Christmas Day 1989, when someone in a pro-regime crowd said, "Boo."

America doesn’t have 25 years to relinquish to the cruelty of Trump — we have real issues to tackle, like global warming and mass inequity. We can’t do that under the Trumpocene. We have to look to other countries to see the bravery that is out there to help light our way forward.


By Chauncey DeVega

Chauncey DeVega is a senior politics writer for Salon. His essays can also be found at Chaunceydevega.com. He also hosts a weekly podcast, The Chauncey DeVega Show. Chauncey can be followed on Twitter and Facebook.

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