“There is only one Brando”: Matt Dillon on playing an icon in "Being Maria"

Matt Dillon has been compared to Marlon Brando in the past, but in the new film, “Being Maria,” the Oscar-nominated actor gets to play Brando. Dillon’s performance is not an impression or imitation, even though he gets to recreate various scenes from the controversial film, “Last Tango in Paris,” including the infamous “butter scene.”

The focus of “Being Maria” is on the titular Maria Schneider (Anamaria Vartolomei). The film is a biopic about her experiences making “Last Tango” and being abused by director Bernardo Bertolucci (Giuseppe Maggio) and Brando while making the film. There are two uncomfortable sequences from the film-within-a-film recreated here — one featuring Brando dunking Maria’s head underwater in a bathtub, and the other is the infamous non-consensual sex scene. Making “Last Tango” was traumatic for Schneider, who, as the film shows, suffered in her career as a result and developed an addiction to heroin. 

Dillon only appears in the filmmaking section of “Being Maria,” but he makes a strong impression. The former (and perhaps still) heartthrob is a character actor in a leading man’s body. His early roles in “Over the Edge,” “The Outsiders” and “Rumble Fish” may have played up his brooding nature, but don’t typecast him. Dillon showed his flair for comedy in the hit “There’s Something About Mary” and delivered a delicious turn in the wonderfully lurid erotic thriller, “Wild Things.” Arguably, his best performances are in the indie films “Drugstore Cowboy” and “Factotum,” where he played Charles Bukowski’s alter ego — which is what makes him playing Brando both fun and exciting. It’s canny casting. 

Salon spoke with Dillon about Brando, his career and making “Being Maria.” 

When did you first see “Last Tango” and what did you think of the film then? 

I first saw the film when I was very young. I was younger than Maria was. I never saw her as being young because I was still in high school. I was too young to see the film when it was first released. I saw it on VHS or maybe on Betamax. I loved the film. It has such an impact on me in spite of the infamous scene. That was the scene I didn’t like in the film. It wasn’t for any moral reason, it just seemed out of place to me. 

I was studying method acting at Lee Strasberg at the time. At 14, I made my first film, “Over the Edge,” directed by Jonathan Kaplan. The reason “Over the Edge” captured my attention was because the kids’ characters were real. I would want to do everything real, and Jonathan would always encourage me to ad-lib and improvise. There is a scene where my character comes into a police station and Jonathan said, “Why don’t you knock the typewriter off the desk?” And I was like, “Yeah, I like that thrashing around!” And Tim Hunter and Charlie Haas, the two writers, said, “No! He can’t do that! We need the typewriter to rewrite the scenes for next week!” They changed it on me. And I said, “C’mon! You said I get to knock that off!” And they called me “Marlon.” I didn’t know Marlon Brando. I was too young. After that film, I knew I would be an actor and watched “On the Waterfront” and “A Streetcar Named Desire,” and it was that trio of method actors — Brando, [Montgomery] Clift in “A Place in the Sun” and [James] Dean in “East of Eden” —  Brando was the one. When I got to “Last Tango,” it was later, but it mesmerized me because of what they were doing. It was so real, so intimate, what Brando revealed. It was powerful. I think it was a bit much for him. As much as Maria was traumatized, I believe he was traumatized too, whether he would ever say it. I know he felt like he gave too much of himself. 

There is a line your character says in “Being Maria,” that Bertolucci got things out of [Brando] that he had not revealed to anyone.

There is a yin and yang to that. What they did was incredibly inconsiderate, to say the least. I’m not going to get into the whole discussion of if it is rape or not; it was performative. She didn’t have any say in it. I’m sensitive to that. Because I started acting when I was young. She’d never done anything before and now she is working with Brando and Bertolucci. They didn’t consider her side of it at all. They were going for something. They were not considering how she might feel. 

She was right to have called it out. 

“Being Maria” was the first film I’ve ever done with an intimacy coordinator. I said, “This film [“Last Tango”] is probably the reason you have this job,” because this scene from this film is the reason why there are intimacy coordinators today. There are a lot of people — filmmakers and actors — who are critical of or against intimacy coordinators, or think it is interfering with their autonomy. I think it can be additive. My understanding is that when it is not working is when it becomes a policing apparatus as opposed to addressing fears or helping people. It can help everyone to do more and open it up to the possibilities. If you can identify what people’s hangups, concerns, or fears are, or what they don’t want to do, chances are it is not going to be a laundry list. They do this in other areas, this just happens to be a more sensitive one. We have stunt coordinators who think creatively — how can we make this sequence work? They check in with the participants — are you comfortable with this? How do you feel about heights? — to see what your parameters are. It’s a similar thing, but there is always shame involved [with sex], which is why it is important.

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Did you rewatch “Last Tango” to prepare for “Being Maria”? 

I have watched the film so many times, because it truly is one of my favorite films. I rewatched portions of it, for sure.

I ask because you are recreating the scenes, like Brando and Maria portraying animals, as well as two very difficult scenes to watch, one where Marlon dunks Maria in the bathtub, as well as the non-consensual sex scene. Can you talk about filming those scenes? Did you try to mimic “Last Tango,” or did you put your own spin on the scene? 

There was flexibility. Fortunately, I didn’t have to say the line “Get the butter.” That would have been too much. They did a good job of that. They did the bathtub scene — they didn’t just do it once [in “Last Tango”]. It didn’t have to be done exactly.  

How do you prepare to play an icon like Brando? It must be easier to focus on one specific period in his life, but he is so larger-than-life. What qualities did you give him?

He’s one of the most fascinating people of the twentieth century. Brilliant man, great artist — complicated, obviously. As an actor, he was a gift. He changed the game, and he did it more than once. There are gaps in his career for the guy considered the greatest of all time by many, including me, because of the risks he took. The thing about preparing for him, the beauty is, it’s Brando. He opened himself up in that film. It was there. I didn’t have to figure out who this author was, or who this writer was. In that film, he himself felt he went too far. That is because he put it out there. A lot of that was really Brando. Bertolucci said that he wanted the real Marlon. He didn’t want a different character. He said the same thing about Maria: “I wanted to see her really humiliated; I did not want to see her acting humiliated.” It doesn’t reflect well. He pushed her too far. Brando was part of it, no question. In terms of preparing to play him, a lot of actors like to do their Brando impersonations. Walking that line is tricky. But he is Brando. You can’t not play Brando. You don’t want it to be an impersonation. What he did as a performer is so great because the wheels are turning with Marlon, and that’s the school of Brando. It’s working from the inside out. It’s method acting.

Matt Dillon as Marlon Brando and Anamaria Vartolomei as Maria Schneider in "Being Maria" (Courtesy of Kino Lorber)Did you ever get to meet Brando? 

Unfortunately, I never did.

What about Bertolucci? 

I love Bernardo. I didn’t know him that well, but I had dinner with him. I didn’t talk too much about “Last Tango” with him. 

Your career has parallels to Brando’s in the sense that you have been a sex symbol and still are to some, I expect. What observations do you have about being compared to Brando? 

A sex symbol to some people, not to everyone!? I’m kidding. Well, there is only one Brando. I love Brando. The things we valued as actors — and I think we [actors] still do value, but the industry less and less values important stuff like acting and character development — but the things that are still important is vulnerability and spontaneity. That’s what Brando brought to it. If you look at movies before “On the Waterfront” and “Streetcar,” They are stiff. 

Yes, I just rewatched “Red River” on the Criterion Channel, and Montgomery Clift is method and John Wayne is “old school.” That film showcases the different acting styles. 

John Wayne is old school, but I remember reading someone asking Lee Strasberg who were the actors he admired, and he said, “John Wayne, Jimmy Cagney.” I think that even though John Wayne didn’t have a lot of range, his emotional range was pretty truthful. There wasn’t anything fake he was putting out there. He wasn’t acting. He was John Wayne, and that’s the thing they criticized him for. I never felt he was acting. You never want to be caught acting. 

“Drugstore Cowboy” recently came out in a new Criterion 4K edition. I always see this film as a pivotal role in your career. What are your thoughts about your filmography? 

We recently lost my favorite actor, Gene Hackman, who I costarred with in a film [“Targets”] that I never thought was that great, but I did it because I wanted to work with Gene. He was an actor I admired so much. He was a character actor, but was a leading man, too. I learned from him: Is it believable? Is it real? What is the character? I would struggle when I was younger because I didn’t have great technique yet. I’m still working on it and learning all the time. Hackman could take not necessarily the best dialogue and lean into it. If you don’t believe in the text or something feels not right, sometimes you have to commit to it emotionally. I like to do character work. I love to get lost in character. What Brando did in “Last Tango” was different; it was a deeply personal performance. It wasn’t “Teahouse of the August Moon,” where he played a Japanese houseboy, which was so strange. That would not happen today.

When I think about “Last Tango,” I think of the scene of Brando crying by his wife’s body.

When I talk about “Last Tango in Paris” to someone, the ones who talked about the butter scene never got the movie. Because the movie is so much more than that. But that [butter] scene is important for “Being Maria.” Bertolucci and Brando are favorites of mine, but “Being Maria” is also important to give Maria a voice. She didn’t have that. She was a kid. That was painful. I think a lot of the suffering for her came after. She was abandoned after all her risk. Her energy and level of commitment was incredible. She was matching Brando every step of the way. I wondered what became of her. There was vague reference to her drug addiction, which was real, but no one talked about the trauma she had making that film. She was coping with trauma, and it was the perfect storm when she met Bertolucci because of her family of origins issues. 

You have worked with some incredible directors, Francis Ford Coppola, Gus Van Sant, Lars Von Trier, Yorgos Lanthimos. Do you have a favorite role, performance, or film in your filmography? Something underrated people seek out?

“Factotum,” I’ve always liked that film. It was a surprise to play Bukowski’s alter ego. I was glad I did that, and love the director [Bent Hamer]. It’s no coincidence that the things I like the most are usually by the best filmmakers. I did a film called “The Saint of Fort Washington,” where I played a homeless schizophrenic. I really did a deep dive into mental illness and the homeless, and that was a really powerful experience for me. I was so immersed in that role. I couldn’t break character. I was happy with my work in it even though the film didn’t do well at the box office. I love throwing myself into a character. I just did a film with Claire Denis. She’s a very distinctive filmmaker, and it is a very distinctive film, with Isaac de Bankole and Mia McKenna-Bruce, and it was quirky. As an actor, in cinema, that is what I am looking for — to work with filmmakers who have a voice and a vision. It’s not my voice, but I want to help them facilitate that. That’s what is exciting and challenging.

You also directed a feature, “City of Ghosts” back in 2002. Do you have plans to direct again?

Yes, I do. It’s so weird because It’s been so long. But I did direct a documentary [“El Gran Fellove” in 2020]. When you are an actor and you direct, the industry thinks of you as an actor, which can be a curse. John Turturro is a great director, but they think of him as an actor. But I will direct again. I really love it because I am visual and a storyteller.

“Being Maria” is currently playing in New York City. It opens March 28 in Los Angeles, April 4 in Portland, OR, and April 11 in San Diego. Additional cities may follow.