Lili Taylor's "Turning to Birds" champions the little things and warns of "Terminator Sparrows"

Lili Taylor has changed my opinion on house sparrows forever.

In her first book, "Turning to Birds: The Power and Beauty of Noticing," released on April 29, the Illinois native and longtime New York resident with a lifetime of iconic film roles under her belt — spanning from "Mystic Pizza," "Say Anything," "I Shot Andy Warhol" and "The Conjuring," in addition to TV roles in "Six Feet Under," "Outer Range," and, soon, the second season of "Daredevil: Born Again" — refers to one of the world's most common birds as being not very nice to each other, "always bickering," and particularly disruptive to nesting bluebirds, aggravating her to such a degree that she bought a pellet gun at Dick's Sporting Goods in an attempt to take them down before realizing it would be too difficult to hit such small moving targets.

During a lengthy conversation over Zoom, as she was in Vancouver working on an undisclosed project, I checked in with Taylor as to the status of her sparrow beef, sharing with her that, as they are the dominant visitors at the feeders in my own backyard, I now keep an askance eye on them, having read the chapter in her book where she details boiling a sparrow's eggs in an effort to keep them from multiplying and taking over the nests of gentler birds, only for one to hatch anyway.

"The Terminator Sparrow was born," she writes, describing her horror and, eventually, admiration at the bird's resilience after rejecting its fate as essentially an Easter egg to come to life, at any cost, to further torment Taylor. 

"It’s a work in progress, my relationship with sparrows," she said during our conversation, spent primarily focused on her love of birds (although not these particular birds) and her work as a board member for both The National Audubon Society and the New York City Bird Alliance.

Read the rest of our interview — her first for the book — to learn more about when and why Taylor became interested in birds and how an appreciation for them is a switch in all of us, just waiting to be flipped.

The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.

As someone who, over the past few years, also entered their bird era, this book really spoke to me. I can remember being younger and looking at all the bird books and figurines in my gramma’s house, thinking, “What’s this lady’s deal with birds?” And then, flash forward 30 or so years later, I’m like, “Oh wow, listen to those mourning doves!” Why do you think that, for so many people, this switch flips at a certain age, and birds suddenly become a point of fascination?

That’s something I think about a lot. I think the switch is there to be flipped . . . our innate wiring to be ready for it. I think it can happen through other people. It’s so wild. Just by even mentioning birds, it sort of opens up a door; it’s really weird. It’s kind of cool—you don’t have to do much. Like, I remember I took these kids out for a walk—my kids’ class. I take them out on little bird walks. This was when they were in the third grade, and it was 20 minutes, and one of the kids’ moms, for the rest of the year, she goes, “Jesus, he can’t stop talking about birds . . . now I gotta put bread out.” And then another mom was like, “Oh my God, every time a bird comes out he says, ‘I like birds now.’” Twenty minutes—that’s all it took. So I guess it’s just letting people know that there are birds around.

Could you ever have imagined in the wilder days of your youth that you’d be publishing a bird book?

No. No. I mean, I always knew that I wanted to write on some level. Not like in the way I’m writing, because I always thought, I’m not a writer. But I always thought, I wanna write plays, or screenplays, because that felt more in my wheelhouse. I did not think I’d be [uses airquotes] an author. When I was doing a little PR thing for the book, I was like, “What do I say? I’m like the . . . of this book? I’m the writer?” And they said, “Well, you can say author.” And I was like, “Author?!” So that’s pretty cool. I still feel a little insecure about my grammar and s**t like that, but my agents and my editor just say, “Don’t worry, we can always work on that. Just be who you are.”

You did a fantastic job. In fact, it’s interesting to hear you say that you would have never thought of yourself as a writer or an author, because you write in my favorite style. It’s very conversational. And there’s a lot of humor in it that I would assume is not even intentional humor; it’s situational humor. Like you going about and interacting with people and stuff. I got so many chuckles out of it and could really put myself in your shoes, and that’s something that's difficult to do when you’re writing, so you really achieved that.

Conversational. That’s an interesting way to describe it. I feel like I wanna take notes. This is my first interview for the book. This is very interesting for me. This is my first way into the world of being a writer. It’s very strange. Not strange. But it’s new. So, conversational, as opposed to a writer being like . . .

Just like, “Birds, birds, birds.” Like, if I were to sit down . . . I love all animals, and I have a dog, but if I were to sit down and write a book about dogs, I feel like I’d find myself wanting to act like an expert and go into breeds and this and that, and end up writing something pretty boring. And I’ve read bird books. I read some books about crows that are along those same lines. Instead of talking about life, life with such and such, life with birds, and your experience as a human with these creatures, it can often read very scientific. So your writing was another way to open that door of appreciation, I feel. Like, oh yeah, you can look outside. There they are. And here’s how you can help them. And it was really cool. 

Thank you. Thank you. I’ll note that. 

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This book really changed my opinion on house sparrows. Reading the chapter you devoted to them, which details their bullying of bluebirds trying to nest, I looked out the window, because I have feeders out, and I was glaring at the feeders in my backyard that were swarming with sparrows. I’m still a novice in this world. I don’t know much about the birds other than, there they go. But I look at them differently now. Especially reading about the “Terminator Sparrow.” So I’m curious, do you still have sparrow beef?

Yeah. I do. Though they’re declining. So now I feel a little bit more . . . well, here’s the thing, look, they’re a reality. I guess I’m just . . . it’s a work in progress, my relationship with sparrows. But if I f**king see one . . . like cats, now look, I wanna keep my cat stuff pretty low profile, because cat people are crazy. And I mean, I love cats. But if I see a f**king cat. And I do, in Brooklyn. I don’t like cats when I see them near birds. I don’t like house sparrows when I see them near bluebirds. 

You have opened my eyes to that because I see them now, and I’m watching them more closely. They are bullies. And there are so many. And they pick at each other. They aren’t even nice to each other. The bugs of the bird world. 

[Laughs]

This was really interesting to me as well in your book, and another reason why it spoke to me, because I’m also an introvert. I have anxiety . . . not like they go hand in hand . . . but I’m anxious just waking up in the morning. Upon rising. Being a birder would seem like a solitary practice, but at your level, you detail in your book lots of interactions with strangers while in pursuit of specific birds, or especially in your work helping to keep them safe. So, as an introvert, what are the pluses and minuses there?

Do you mean being an introvert who’s also in the public eye?

Well, when you’re out there with birds, people are like, “What are you looking at?” They’re gonna be coming. People.

I guess I gave up a long time ago on any anonymity. That’s just the reality, if you’re an actor in this century. Maybe if I were acting . . . well, I wouldn’t have been acting in 1500, because it would have been a man anyway. So this is my reality now. If someone’s focused on something we’re like, “Whoa, what is it?” I didn’t realize that was so active. And I also didn’t know how curious birders are, and how open they are to talking about or figuring out birds. Just a couple of days ago, I was at a place with a little lagoon and I was sitting on a little strange, I don’t know, cement thing a little bit out on the shore, and a mom and her kid . . . I think he may have been a little autistic because he was kinda close to me . . . and she was like, you know, “Back away,” and then she was like, “Have you been here much? Do you know . . . wait, are you from? That haunted house . . .  wait . . . “ And I was like, “Yeah, it’s 'The Haunting,'” And she was like, “Oh my goodness.” You know, if you just kinda cut to the chase, tell them what it is, because a lot of times people aren’t sure where they know me from. So I just cut to it. And then the exchange is usually over pretty fast. They can see I love birds and that I wanna go back to it. And usually it’s pretty OK. And then they realize, oh, someone else loves birds, that’s cool, let’s stop and look at another bird. 

Lili Taylor (ANGELA WEISS/AFP via Getty Images)You are actually on the board of The National Audubon Society, which I think is an amazing example of signal boosting. Reading every mention of your work with them, detailed in your book, I get the sense that when you’re passionate about something, you go all in, which includes your collection of binoculars, which I now know that birders refer to as “bins.” How do you balance your time between your acting work and your work with Audubon​​​​​?

I haven’t been as busy as an actor as I would like, honestly. And I probably shouldn’t say this much in interviews. You should say you’re very busy, you know, whatever—you don’t say things like that—but it’s the truth. And so I’ve had time. And, you know, I also have a daughter, and my husband teaches from January to May in Houston, so there have been certain reasons why I maybe have not been as out there as I . . . right? And you know something else, it’s like, with Audubon, somehow I’m just able to make things work.

I think that not being so overwhelmingly busy that you can do your own life stuff is a good thing. It must feel nice. I could never even imagine the life of a celebrity . . . not only speaking events, but there’s so much. People want so much of you. I've seen interviews you’ve done in the past talking about riding along with Julia Roberts during press for “Mystic Pizza,” and you were just amazed. I remember you said specifically, talking about how she was treated, that it seemed like a prison. So I think, good for you that you have time to do this stuff and be a person. 

That’s a great point, and I need to bring that in more. What are the things I’ve gotten by not being busy? And maybe it’s not because I haven’t been wanted as an actor, maybe it’s because I also want a certain quality of life. And you can see the things I do in the book. I want to do all those things that I’m doing, and that does take time and quiet. 

I came across a video featuring you on the National Audubon Society YouTube page where you explain how your love of birds led to your love of native plants as a way to fill your garden with healthy food options for birds and butterflies. To me, this is such a beautiful example of how appreciating nature creates a positive ripple effect, opening your heart to so many other things, which we need now. Where would you eventually like to take this next?

I wanna do things. And I’ve found my thing. And I guess with acting . . . I love acting, and I miss it. I do miss it. I need it. And for all my introversion . . . I love to collaborate. And being a writer, you collaborate in a different way. And I love being with a crew. And I realized while I was writing that I need this. That being said, I’ve also found that I’ve got something I love, and I know what it is. And I’ve hired a publicist who will work with me on, specifically, how to develop myself as an ambassador. I don’t even know some of the ways I might be able to help, but I wanna be ready to do it when it shows up. 

I was excited to see that you got added to the cast for "Daredevil: Born Again" Season 2

I know! It’s kinda cool. I haven’t started yet. I start in a couple of weeks, but yeah! 

I’m curious, when you travel for projects (although for that one, you don’t have to travel very far), do you research what birds are in the area, like some travelers would research restaurants? 

Yes and no. Once I was really on a destination to see a bird, which I don’t really do, and I hadn’t done any homework, and I was really f**ked. I’ve been to Vancouver before, and I was here for about a year, so I have a pretty good sense. I guess I do, for sure—like, before I go, like, oh, you’re gonna be shooting in Atlanta, Georgia . . . yeah, actually, I will look up and see what’s going on. I do. I do.

Two feral cats like to sneak into my backyard to hunt the birds at my feeders and they’ve caught more than a few bluejays and mourning doves, which makes me want to set up little fences and do things to protect the birds, which makes me question to what level humans should interfere with nature doing what nature does. Have there been instances in your work with birds when that quandary has presented itself? When to step in, and when to allow nature to run its course, because we can’t always be around to protect?

It’s a great question . . . to accompany or to interfere. And I think it changes with each situation. For me, like when that cat was around in Brooklyn, I took the feeders down. Because I felt that birds haven’t evolved to deal with cats, and so it’s putting them in a situation that’s just not fair. With the bluebirds, that’s a clear thing where they need intervention. Now, house finches, for instance, they have a really terrible disease that’s like pink eye, and it’s really taking them down. It’s really bad. They get it from each other and at feeders and stuff. I was talking to this finch expert, and he had said, “Keep the feeders up.” Because they need to develop [an immunity.] Now, someone else would say, “No, no, no, take those feeders down.” So that I feel is a more nuanced thing where, for instance, I know with a lot of those cams, those nest cams, the public gets very upset. I heard one of them had to shut down an eagle cam because they were mad at the park service, because they weren’t intervening. Because one of the chicks was sick or something, and they didn’t like the way the parents were treating the chick. So they had to shut it down. And that’s when I get really upset, like we really need to do a lot of education on anthropomorphizing, on just live and let live, and step back. It’s not Disney. So, it’s a great question, and I think it’s a question we should be asking.   

Lili Taylor will be at a number of events for "Turning to Birds," which you can keep an eye on here.