"Top Chef" producer on that demanding thali challenge: "I'm getting winded just thinking about it!"

As the number of "Top Chef: World All Stars" cheftestants dwindle, the challenges keep getting harder. The latest installment may have presented the most difficult Elimination challenge so far, in an episode that features practically everything that makes "Top Chef" such a stellar show.

But first, the QuickFire, which tests the chefs to produce dishes with preserved, smoked or salted fish. While some people may pooh-pooh such products, items such as bottarga or even baccala are genuinely cherished in fine dining and Italian-American circles, respectively. With the right touch and knowledge, ingredients that are sharp or even acrid or overly salted can be incorporated into a well-rounded dish with finesse. Apparently, Amar is up to the challenge, winning his first-ever solo QuickFire in his "Top Chef" career.

As for the thali Elimination challenge, it is arguably one of the most difficult elimination rounds in the history of the show. Asma Khan makes for a wonderful guest judge, not only or her knowledge, but her stories and sentiments even bring Sara and Padma to tears. Thali is the multi-dish meal that balances six tastes – sweet, bitter, pungent, sour, salty and astringent – and clearly gets the best of many of our cheftestants, including a strangely frazzled Buddha like we've never seen before. In the end, while Buddha and Gabri at least offer one good item each, Victoire unfortunately does not. 

Victoire seems to have been mistaken about her kachumber. She mimicks the dish she was served at lunch, which she believes has no seasoning. However, Padma and Asma confirm that's a misstep. Victoire also does herself a disservice letting everyone know that she's unable to take spice/heat (she's just like me!), which is a hindrance in properly executing a thali. Amar's time advantage gained from the QuickFire win is put to good use, and he wins this challenge also.

Victoire Gouloubi in "Top Chef" (David Moir/Bravo)

Salon spoke with Co-Executive Producer at Magical Elves, Thi Nguyen, who answered  questions about "Top Chef," from the most particular aspects of this season's challenges and the Queen's passing to large scale questions I've wondered about the show for years.

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The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.

Where did the QuickFire idea come from? It was interesting to see preserved/salted/smoked fish products featured in such a way, especially including items like bottarga and/or baccala. 

We're always looking for fun culinary facts and unexpected nuggets that are significant to the host city we're in and then turn them into challenges. We learned that kippers is a whole herring that has been sliced in half, gutted, salted or pickled, then smoked and was once popular in the Victorian and Edwardian eras. Basically, it's preserved fish.  Every culture has their own techniques to preserve fish, so we thought to take this kippers idea and turn it into a global gateway of ingredients. We had over 20 types of preserved seafood on display for the chefs to work with, ranging from Scotland's smokies to Nigeria's okporoko to Japan's katsuobushi — we went all over the world with this. 

The Elimination challenge was especially interesting because the cheftestants were asked to present such a wide variety of dishes, which they could either succeed with — or ultimately fail with. How was the thali challenge conceived? Did Padma have any input?

We knew going to London that we couldn't leave without doing an Indian food challenge, given the city has some of the best Indian food in the world outside of India. The chefs suspected this too. So, in crafting the challenge that really speaks to Indian culture and would also be unfamiliar to our chefs, we learned about thali and the intricacies of the different flavor profiles.

This would not only challenge the chefs, but also serve as a learning experience, which is why it was so important for them to be able to taste and experience a thali platter. We were so grateful for Asma to prepare her thali platters so that they could understand what we were asking them to do, which was for them to make their own version. Padma was definitely a huge influence in developing this challenge as we wanted to make sure we were honoring Indian cuisine appropriately.  She contributed to the creative and she made sure the pantry was stocked with the spices and ingredients that are integral to Indian cooking. 

Many a time, we've seen seemingly incredibly talented chefs or cooks be stymied by rice, from "Top Chef" and other food competition shows to non-food based reality shows. What do you think it is about rice (and rice dishes in general) that proves to be such a challenge for otherwise talented chefs?

When you're making rice over a stove instead of using a rice cooker, it's very temperamental and needs to be done with precision and care. That's when you're in the comfort of your own kitchen.  Once you're on a show, there's a clock that's ticking, you have multiple components simultaneously going on and different equipment to work with, so the attention and care that you would normally give your rice is now muddied by all the other factors involved.  On "Top Chef," we generally limit rice cookers on set so that the chefs have to actually cook their rice and can't take shortcuts. Who knew something so basic as making rice would make such riveting TV!

Padma briefly references it at lunch with Asma Khan, but what was the shift in London like after the Queen's passing? Padma mentions having to move the location of the elimination challenge tasting back to the "Top Chef" kitchen; what were the logistics and changes like at that time?

The country was in seven days of mourning from the Queen's passing which impacted our production in so many ways. The city was at a standstill — not fully shut down, but barely afloat.  But as they say in showbiz, the show must go on, and we had a show to shoot. Half of our crew were locals, so we offered them to take time off to bereave should they choose to. We checked in with our guest judges to make sure they were comfortable still appearing. We had locations that we had to pull out of because they were in the direct path of the Queen's procession.

For the thali challenge, Asma was going to cook and serve her dishes to Padma and the chefs at the Taj Hotel, then the following day the Chefs would return to Taj to cook and serve their own thalis.  But we had to call an audible to shoot elsewhere because it was nearly impossible to load into the location given its close proximity to Buckingham Palace. Thankfully, Flora Indica opened their place up to us for the tasting beat. But given the short notice, they were already using their kitchen for their own service, so Asma had to cook her thali platters down the street at her friend's place.

As Padma explains, the chefs would then cook in the "Top Chef" Kitchen and serve in their stew room, which the Art department had to quickly decorate to match the theme. They did such a wonderful job, as well as the culinary team for getting a tandoori oven into the kitchen. There are so many logistical elements that need to be accounted for both on and off camera; a shoot that took us months to prepare for turned into a new 24-hour game plan.

Aside from Sara and perhaps Gabri, everyone seemed to stay pretty in line with classic Indian flavors and preparations in their thalis. Did you and the other producers anticipate more cheftestants to go outside of the box in terms of flavors, ingredients, techniques, etc.?

That's what I love about these challenges. It's open to interpretation. The only requirements were that the thalis needed to hit the six flavor profiles that every chef, no matter where you're from, could understand those concepts and that they had to include Indian ingredients. The chefs are always trying to strike a balance with making their own food and representing themselves in their dishes, but also honoring what the task is at hand, whether it's celebrating Indian cuisine or whatever culture that's presented to them.

You always hear the chefs talk about taking a risk or playing it safe, so it's interesting to see what their strategy is and how they approach each challenge. Was the risk worth the reward or failure? Did they play it too safe? You'll never know what you're going to get from each chef, and that's what makes this competition so exciting and also so exciting for us as producers to come up with challenges that will push our chefs.

Sujoy Gupta, Sriram Aylur, Asma Khan, Padma Lakshmi, Gail Simmons, Tom Colicchio and Vivek Singh in "Top Chef" (David Moir/Bravo)

Padma references her earliest food memories in this episode. What are some of yours?

Does heating up a frozen food dinner for after school lunch count?

Jokes aside, one of my earliest food memories was seeing my mom make my favorite Vietnamese caramelized pork belly dish. In making the caramelized marinade, you have to cook down the sugar so that it doesn't get burnt, which I still fail at every time I try. My other early food memory is going to the Asian markets with my parents every weekend, learning how to pick out live crabs and lobsters. I find it so jarring how ingredients that we consider inexpensive such as pork belly and shallots are double or even triple the costs at other markets.

The Quick Fire judge seemed really great, and Asma was incredible. Are judges ever assigned/selected due to the scheduled challenge itself or vice versa? Or is the timing and judge selection generally pretty random?

It works both ways. Some challenges are written with a judge in mind. Other times, we have to do our research and figure out who makes the most sense for this challenge. Then, it comes down to availability. If a judge we really want can only be available for a certain date, we try to move the challenges to accommodate their schedule. Tom Brown made sense because not only does he have a Michelin seafood restaurant in London, but he actually has a popular preserved fish dish on his menu, so he was well versed in this challenge. As for Asma, there aren't enough words to describe her. Her warmth and kindness just radiates and what she's been able to accomplish, especially as a woman of color – it just made sense to celebrate her.

Were there any specific thai ingredients, dishes or components that stood out to you from any of the cheftestants — for either positive or negative reasons? 

Because we don't taste the dishes, I can only rely on the judges' feedback. However, the ingredients in the pantry were curated by our culinary team, Padma, Asma and us, the producers. Everyone was involved to ensure authenticity. 

We wanted them to be able to make their own version of thali should they choose to, so the pantry included one or two requested specialty ingredients from each chef. Not everyone used them, of course . . . and they could use each other's specialty ingredients as well. All we can do is anticipate their needs and help set them up to succeed and what they do with it is up to them.

Was the "sweet" component expected to be part of the overall thali meal (like a chutney or raita) or more of a dessert-type product, like Buddha's (delicious sounding!) mango lassi pudding? 

This was completely open to their own interpretation. For a chef, sweet does not always equate to a dessert. There are a lot of sweet savory dishes. Personally, I love seeing a variety of what they come up with. That's the beauty of cooking. 

Sara Bradley, Tom Goetter, Buddha Lo, Gabriel Rodriguez, Ali Al Ghzawi, Victoire Gouloubi and Amar Santana in "Top Chef" (David Moir/Bravo)

It was interesting to see how some of the cheftestants were totally unclear on certain Indian ingredients, such as jaggery or asafoetida. Were there any other ingredients mentioned or included in the thali challenge that were totally unknown to some of the cheftestants? 

I'm sure there were because there was a lot that I was unfamiliar with as well. We had things like ajwain, amchur powder, methi seeds and leaves and bottle gourd. The Chefs had to factor into their time to taste all these ingredients, conceptualize six dishes, hit all the flavor profiles, then execute a total of 54 dishes. I'm getting winded just thinking about it!

How are the shots of the slightly rotating dishes taken, which often play when a chef is explaining his/her dish? How soon after they're cooked (and before they're eaten)?

The chefs are always asked to make an additional dish for beauty. When time is up, the culinary team immediately takes one of their dishes to a "beauty tent," where there's a whole setup and camera designated to get these shots in. It may take hours to shoot, but we have a culinary stylist there to help keep the dishes looking exactly as they were intended to. If a chef has a pourer, we'll shoot the dish with the pourer next to it and then a version with the sauce already poured into the dish so that both versions are available in the edit to choose from.   

What are your hopes for the future of "Top Chef"? More international seasons, more returnee/alum seasons, more seasons with brand new cheftestants?

My dream was always for us to shoot in Paris and so when we achieved that this season, it really was a dream come true. My next dream host city or finale location would be in Japan. The quality of food and ingredients is unparalleled, and it's such a beautiful country.  I like to think I willed Paris into this season, so I can will Japan into a future one too.  Perhaps for Zeason 30?

I also loved how truly global we were this season with the chefs, so [I] would love to see more of that in the future.

How does conceptualizing differentiate between ideating challenges for QuickFires vs. Elimination challenges vs. "Last Chance Kitchen" challenges?

For QuickFires and Elimination challenges, the food comes first. We have to think about what we're asking them to do and can it be completed in only thirty minutes versus having fully conceptualized dishes that need time to execute properly. QuickFires are definitely more playful, so we want the chefs to have fun, take risks and be quick on their feet. They really are out there coming up with the dishes on the fly, running around the kitchen like mad and the sweat you see is real.

The Elimination challenges tend to be more serious because someone is getting eliminated, but we'll throw in fun ideas to balance it out, like last year's football challenge. There was a 1% chance of neither team getting a touchdown. Never in a million years did we think this would happen and lo and behold, it did and that threw a curveball, not to name a winning team! This could have easily been a fun QuickFire team challenge that celebrated Texas football, but we wanted to have fun with it as an Elimination challenge. 

As for "Last Chance Kitchen," those ideas are created with the mindset of what are they going to cook that's deserving for a chef back into the competition. There's a set of ideas in place before we learn who makes it into ["Last Chance Kitchen."] Once we know who's eliminated, the challenge might get tailored because Chef X served raw chicken, so let's make them redeem themselves with a chicken-related challenge. They are more cheeky than Quickfires but more serious in tone because if you're out, then you're out of the competition for good.

Sara Bradley, Tom Goetter, Buddha Lo, Gabriel Rodriguez, Ali Al Ghzawi, Victoire Gouloubi, Amar Santana, Asma Khan, Padma Lakshmi, Tom Colicchio and Gail Simmons in "Top Chef" (David Moir/Bravo)What's the most challenging part about being a producer? The most enjoyable?

"Top Chef" really is the Olympics of cooking. The moment the Chefs start cooking, I'm watching behind a monitor cheering each of them on, but also like a concerned coach on the sidelines, hoping they'll get everything done. It's really like watching athletes in the kitchen.

Aside from getting to know the chefs, we as a production in both talent and crew have become an extended family. We spend a quarter of a year together, so you really have to like the people you're working with to be able to come back to this every year.  This will be my sixth year! Traveling to new locations is also a blessing and what keeps this show feeling fresh every season.

The challenging parts can be with the locations and the scheduling. There are so many moving parts to make an episode of "Top Chef," but I do think we make it look seamless onscreen. As producers, our brains are constantly on 24/7 as we are always problem solving, brainstorming and thinking about the next steps of production.

What's something about working behind-the-scenes of "Top Chef" that people might be surprised to learn?

Everyone is always surprised at how real the QuickFires are. They find out the challenge when Padma tells them. We stop down for at most 10 minutes to go over rules, then they're right back in the kitchen learning on the fly what's in the pantry, are there any proteins in the fridges, what equipment do they have to work with in this challenge all the while coming up with what dish fits the criteria. It's very intense.

John mentioned that the crew doesn't taste the cheftestants' dishes, but were there any standouts thus far this season for you, even just from hearing about and/or seeing the dish and judges' feedback?

There's so many great dishes this season. Particularly from what I recall, Charbel's onion dish in the first episode just stunned every guest at the table and earned him high praises. Then there are dishes that may not be in the Top 3 but still received high remarks, like Begoña's rice dish in Episode 2.  I remember the Judges being fascinated by it but the Top 3 just edged her out. For the Gaggan challenge, Amar's reimagination of the papaya salad felt so far left coming from Amar, but what a beautiful job he did and the judges were so impressed that it landed him in the top.   

Even though we don't get to taste the chefs' food, I did get to try the dishes this season that the guest judges would make for the chefs. I didn't lick up Gaggan's world map like the chefs did, but I did slide my finger through to taste the dish.  So many floral notes . . . it was such a beautiful dish. Then Asma made an extra thali platter and my goodness, the chingri bhaja (stir fried prawns) was the best shrimp I've ever had — it was such an incredible explosion of flavor dancing on my taste buds. 

Moments like these I'll always cherish because you don't get them elsewhere than on "Top Chef."

"Top Chef: World All Stars" airs Thursdays at 9 p.m. on Bravo and streams next day on Peacock.